Zoom Transcript of the May 5, 2026, Emergency Meeting

This transcript was automatically generated by Zoom. Zoom's AI is about 90% accurate. The transcript has been updated to identify most speakers and to correct punctualtion and spelling errors.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:32:00
All right, so let's go ahead and get right to this. Approval of the agenda. Do I have any changes or deletions? I have no changes. Having none, do I have a recommendation to approve the agenda?
I'll make a motion to approve the agenda. Second. Okay, hearing no discussion. Roll call Commissioner Harding.

[Tom Harding] 15:32:21
Yes.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:32:22
Commissioner Dia. Yes, Vice Mayor Colonel. Yes, Mayor Foster. Yes, agenda. Great. So this is comments and correspondence. Sylvia, any? I have not received any correspondence. Anyone's line that would like to, uh… Speak on this?

[Foster]
I don't see any hands. I don't see any hands raised. So it's seeing none. Let's move right into it. Okay, so we're going to review and approve the pen pile load testing documents, or at least that's what the agenda says. And the first one is CPH correspondence dated. 05 04 of 26. Doug, go ahead and take that away.

[Colonell]
Okay, um… We had a request by Commissioner Harding to provide load testing on the new piles, pin piles in the new administrative area. Once the pin piles were installed. So I did my homework. I went back to CPH. And this all… this kind of started with CPH suggested the structural engineer suggested that it would be a good idea to load test the pin piles.

When I went back and asked if it was a requirement that that spawned this letter from Kyle Bechtenheimer. And I'll just I'll just summarize this letter. But basically his letter says that it's not a it's not a requirement of the plans, and it's they feel it's unnecessary. So we also got a letter from the contractor who went back to Nutting Engineering, which is the. quality control engineer. And they don't do the test. Um… They they suggested that the contractor do the test. So our contractor looked into it and and got some pricing. And he believes that it's going to be in the 50,000 to $100,000 range to do it. And it would impact the job by 6 weeks.

So based on that. I was asked to go back and clarify that, and so I think we had a suggestion, and now we have the engineer saying it's not required. If we… If we drive these pin piles to the refusal and we have quality control engineers out here watching and our own third party inspectors watching we see that those, I watch the piles, the auger piles go to refusal myself. But you, once they hit refusal. If they're grouted properly, which they will be, and the plates and the caps and the rebars all placed properly, which it will be and will be inspected, and the concrete that's used is tested for compliance with the engineering documents we should not have a problem. The engineer will certify the the slab, which is what we need. And so that would be common practice.

And that's kind of where we are. So we need to decide if we want to spend 50,000 or more on load testing for 5 pin piles of the 40 plus that are going to go in. Um… Okay. And to hold up the job by, you know, another few weeks. So that's where we are.

[Foster]
All right. So I probably got a little out of sequence. We probably should make a motion first and have discussion. So I because I have a couple of comments on this and we'll do it. Let me get a motion first for, uh… Uh, the motion would be to… accept the correspondence and not do testing on the pin files.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:36:32
So do I have a do I have a motion to accept the position from the company and not do the testing. I'll make that motion. Do I have a sec? Second?

[Foster]
All right, further discussion. So I also started asking. My biggest question was, have we ever done it in the state before? And I started with Mayor Monroe and I can't find where we've ever done it. The second is I couldn't even find who does it, so I'm not quite sure where they got a price, because I'm sure they knew somebody, but I couldn't find anybody. But, um… I do agree that if it's done per the design, that the original was done. Let's just say, if everything was was correct, I think we would not be here right now anyway. So I have no further discussion or concerns about this, and I'm not entertaining the $100,000 nor the delays. So anyone else have any discussion on this?

[Harding] 15:37:26
Yeah, Mayor, I'd like to just discuss you. So… so I did quite a bit of research today.

[Foster]
Sure, good.

[Tom Harding] 15:37:35
I called 8 engineering firms and pin pile installation firms. Um, got a lot of good feedback. It's good to talk to… Contractors that install them on a regular basis, and also engineering firms that test them on a regular basis. So I did find three engineering firms that do testing. What I found is the norm in this… in the industry is the… Contractor installs the pin piles. They typically have the… equipment to set up to test pin piles. And then the engineering firm directs them with the setup and then actually does the testing. So I talked to three engineering firms that do the testing. It is fairly routine up in Miami and Lauderdale. And one of the engineering firms clarified to me Florida building code above a certain tonnage. It's required. That's why it's typically done with larger buildings, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, smaller buildings is not required. So he clarified that to me.

[Foster]
Yeah, thanks, Tom, because I the ones I talked to were all similar to what this building and homes and stuff like that. I did not, for clarification, reach out to any big industrial companies up north. I was looking more for similar like to what this construction is. So, thanks for, uh, for looking at the larger scale up north. I didn't have any, um… I'll be honest with you, I was looking for down here for a similar type building, so appreciate that.

[Harding] 15:39:19
Yeah, and one of the firms I talked to routinely does work in Marathon, they've done, um, actually, they did the Holiday Inn for testing, and then they also did the Marathon Airport, some of the expansions they did at the airports. They did testing there. He's very familiar with Key County Luna Beach.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:39:39
Okay.

[Harding]
Um, and then what I would say is that I found a difference in knowledge level. The three firms I talked to, two of the three were very knowledgeable. A third was, I'd say mediocre. Um, the consensus from the group was. for 42 pin piles, if we wanted to test, they said two would be the max. And that's just basically on you do a random sample through the area of two that should be adequate. And the prices I got from each of them range from $7,000 to $20,000. and they they all agreed that this would be a small job versus what they're used to doing. And again, all three of them. It sounds like they actually do this weekly. They do this kind of testing. Um, so with all that, the best advice I got was probably from the most knowledgeable Um, he stated that when you do testing, there's kind of an easy way for the contractor to get around doing a good quality job. So what's interesting is that when you actually do the testing, he says the contractor will focus on those two pin piles, and he may not focus as good on the rest of them. So he said, for the best quality. job for yourself for the city would be to do observation with a third party like nutting or somebody else like that, I think which is already set up Um, and then have them test, or have them evaluate to actual impact, or I guess what's the right word to refusal and what the depth of that is, and then document that versus the geotechnical report. And he said the key is you make sure you get assigned PE sealed and signed PE on that report. He said, Don't don't allow them to give you the data with having the sign sealed PE. And he said, really, that's to compare the geotech to the actual depth of the refusal. Um, he said, that's the key into making sure you have a good quality job. So I think from talking to everybody, I would agree that's probably the… least costly and probably the best quality that we could provide to the city. And it sounds like the only thing we probably need to verify from the quote that… Pedro Falcon gave us is that who would actually be the PE that signs off on the summary, if that's… nodding, or if that's CPH.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:42:19
It's it's not Tom, just to answer your question. It's nutting in all aspects is our 3rd party, and that was always part of the deal. They've been doing it already, and they'll continue to do it.

Harding] 15:42:30
And I think all aspects isn't a PE, though, right?

[Foster]
Okay. They're doing the inspections, and then that gives the CPH would do the final certification on the entire job. But yeah, based on those inspection reports from them and nutty, the quality control and the materials.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:42:46
They would be able to sign off. Their engineer's not standing out here watching this. So that's why we have a third… that's why we have a third party. But that's what we're doing anyway. So we're on the same page. That's good.

[Harding] 15:42:51
Yeah, so I… Yeah, so I I think… Yeah, so I I think the only thing I'd like to verify that that Brandon agrees. He's going to sign off as the sealed sign and sealed person or if he isn't. Okay, alright. So if we can… we can verify that is he will. And if we follow these steps, which we have been following, and we're diligently following them, and we've been inspecting already, they will sign off in the end, and the goal is to get them to sign off because they're the ones that have the insurance policy.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:43:27
If it fails, the contractor builds it according to the plan, and it fails.

[Harding] 15:43:36
Yeah, and I guess the feedback I got from two of the folks that actually observe and do the do the testing. They said what is typical for a contractor? To, you know, to kind of get around the amount of work is the amount of refusal. And then, when he starts getting into some of that rock that he'll back off. And if somebody's not there watching, observing that as an independent source. Then that's typically what he sees in the field happen. So that was his advice to us.

We're already doing that. We did that with the auger piles, too, and I and actually, I was here watching a lot of those piles go in, and the auger pile was, you know, going, I don't know, let's say 30 RPMs as it was going in, and then when it hit the cap rock, which in my neighborhood they call that bedrock, which is rock of no more. Once they hit that, the the drill rig slows down from 30 RPM, say, to 10 RPM, and you can really… you can see the machine struggling, and you realize that's the cap rock, and they'll drill another foot into the cap rock or so with the pin piles will do the same thing, but they're driven in, not drilled in.

[Tom Harding] 15:44:49
So… So so Doug is is someone in process of approving and signing off. So, it would be the same process, pretty much. For the new City Hall portion, and that report's available for all of us to see.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:45:05
Sure. We have all those reports. Nothing's been certified yet, because the project is in place. They won't do that yet. They won't do that yet. So, but we have all those reports. You're welcome to see other reports. Samantha has a… we've… we've, uh… At Nauseam, we're working on inspections and quality control and all that, and our building department isn't even involved in the inspection work. It's the… we have outside parties doing all this who also are insured. And just so you know, Tom, so you can sleep at night.

[Harding] 15:45:15
Yeah.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:45:36
Not only do we have these inspectors out there and quality control people, but the drilling people do. The auger, the people that are drilling the augers and drilling the piles, they have their own quality control. The concrete company's got his own testing quality control going, too. So it's not just actually you can, when they're doing this work, you'll see five or six guys sitting around. You'll think, well, those guys are lazy, they're just sitting around. They're not. They're watching every step of the way, hear what's going on. And those are our field inspectors that fill out the field reports, take the… Take the photographs and then that goes back to the samples go to a lab and get cracked at seven days and 28 days and welds welds will be inspected, rebar placement has been inspected, putting depths have been inspected, concrete samples have been taken on everything. Um, so yes, you can see the reports if you want to see them. We probably have. I don't. I'm afraid to guess at it, but I bet there's 20 reports already or more.

[Harding] 15:46:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Doug, if I can just ask, I think the Commission should see the nutting refusal depth report and the geotechnical report. And if if Brandon hasn't signed that off with a seal yet, we should at least get those interim reports to verify that those two match.

[Colonell1
You're welcome to do that. So we're getting…

[Foster]
let's get back on task. So… So…

[Black] 15:47:05
Brandon just unmuted. I hold on just real quick. This is Scott Black. Brandon is unmuted because I think he would like to clarify what's being discussed right now.

[DeCaro] 15:47:10
Yeah. Well, I just joined the meeting a couple minutes ago. I've heard my name mentioned twice and signing and sealing. Uh, I'm an architect. I can't sign and sell for structural, so I'm not sure what was discussed previously.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:47:32
Alright, so again…

[DeCaro]
I did… I only caught the last 5 minutes of the conversation.

[Black]
So the question is going to be who's going to sign the installation log that is logging the depths and the refusal of the pen pile installation? Because we get a pin pile installation report like we did last time. The question is.

[DeCaro]
Okay.

[Black]
Who is going to be observing and signing off that has a PE after their name? And is that that Nutting? Is that CPH? I don't believe it's gonna be All Aspects.

[DeCaro]
It's not CPH. We haven't been. contracted to to to to do that.

[Foster]
Alright, Brandon, go ahead and take a break for a minute. So, Scott, same. So what we what we're doing is we're doing the work in accordance with the drawings in there. We have oversight doing the job. We have explored if there's a need to do the pin pile inspections. That's what's on the table. We're getting way off base with everything else. If anybody wants to see the testing, the testing is available, and the final packages will be available. We're spinning off on a different direction right now. We need to get back to what the question was. The question was, do we need to have inspections done on the pin piles? We've explored that, we've got the answers. We have a first, we have a second. Everybody's had their discussion. So unless, Scott, you have something technically legal that we need to discuss, I'm done. I don't… I don't think we need anything further.

[Black]
Nothing

[Foster]
Thank you. So, with that said, roll call. And just for the record, the motion is to accept the correspondence and to not do testing on the pen piles. Correct. Anything outside of that can be handled separately.

[City of Key Colony Beach] 15:49:15
Commissioner Deal. Yes, Commissioner Harding. Vice McCona. Yes, Mayor Foster. Yes, motion approved. Thank you.

[Tom Harding] 15:49:19
Yes.

[Foster]
All right, the second one, Pedro Falcone. That's just part of the same thing, correct? Yeah. All right, so we really didn't need two line items. So item A, I mean for A and B are approved. Okay, so… and Tom, thanks for doing this because I didn't get up to Miamien area. I stayed basically in my my my swimming pool down here, but I appreciate the, uh… the investigation on that. So if we have nothing further, I'm going to call from adjournment. Adjourn. Second.

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